Short Shrifted

A Men’s Voguer sounds off on suit-hunting when you’re 5-foot-6. He asks “Who wants to hear the ‘No, no, no’ I generally get in suit departments?”. ‘Best to avoid those,’ one salesman says as my hand brushes a handsome plaid. ‘Solids or the more subtle patterns will give you height.’ Yeah, right.” And laments “it’s always the same advice for short guys.” Well said. According to him, the following suit brands are standouts for short guys: Dolce & Gabbana’s “Martini” style, Ralph Lauren Black Label, Dior, and Jimmy Au. (Thanks to Sheikh for passing this link on to me) [Men's Vogue]

Thinking more about what Steve Cardino said about short men shopping the Boys department. How if you’re small enough to check out those clothes, you’re going to find “so many of the brands that have been Mens and Young Mens have moved into Boys.” Well, Men’s Vogue also recently did a rundown of “classy” kids’ stores. So while the particular duds pictured might not be exactly what you’re looking for (and I think part of it is the stylist’s treatment for this photo shoot), the brands mentioned might start you in the right direction. [Men's Vogue]

You know how hard it is to part with that one perfect-fitting shirt that’s starting to fray. Well, here’s another reason (besides fit) to invest in custom dress shirts: collars and cuffs can usually be replaced. [A Suitable Wardrobe]

If you’re ever out Oregon way (or you happen to live in the Pacific Northwest), Duchess Clothiers might have some nice tailored bits and bobs to snazz you up. A lofty thinker (who’s also firmly tethered to terra firma thanks to his short stature) recently checked out their new showroom in Portland, OR (check out his tantalizing digitypes). Pieces from Duncan Quinn, Seize sur Vingt mingle with Duchess’ own men’s line (and they also offer relatively on-the-cheap MTM suiting).

Lord Whimsy ends the post musing on the intersection of Wall Street and High Street:

In these times, few of us can afford big ticket items. But buying a small but beautifully crafted item like a great little pocket square, cool socks, or a handcrafted wallet can be a inexpensive but potent morale booster. It’s a good way to give your look a lift without breaking the bank. The savagery of this economy need not make savages of us, after all.

[Affected Provincial's Almanack]

Joel Thibodeau is the 5-foot-3 singer/songwriter behind the indie-folk act Death Vessel, whose brand-new record “Nothing Is Precious Enough for Us” was just released on Sub Pop [Listen to "Bruno's Torso" MP3].

In the past, Death Vessel has opened for acts like Low, Calexico, Iron & Wine, Jose Gonzalez, St. Vincent and Gillian Welch. Catch him in November, when he’ll be opening for The Sea & Cake. I hope to see him on October 22, 23, or 24 in NYC, when he’ll be playing with a full backing band. I’ve been a fan ever since seeing a live performance in Portland, Maine, back in 2003. I’ve been looking for an opportunity to share my love of his music with folks, so here it is.

This weekend, I interviewed Thibodeau. We talked about thrift stores, his eternal quest for pair of jeans that fit a 27-inch waist, the ups and downs of shopping eBay, shortscale guitars, musical inspirations, a possible future recording project with Micah Blue Smaldone, his upcoming tour, and his challenge to Levi Strauss & Co. The denim retailer is co-sponsoring the Fader magazine show he plays in NYC on October 23, and apparently has asked for all the performers’ measurements. So Levi’s, if you’re listening: give this man some jeans that actually fit!

On to the interview (height-related questions first, followed by music-related stuff):

SHORT SHRIFTED: Both of us grew up in southern Maine. I’m 5-foot-5 and I always remember having a hard time there finding clothes that fit well. Besides the Gap, my go-to place was the Salvation Army. What was your experience?

JOEL THIBODEAU: Well clothing sucks when you’re around 5-foot-3. So it’s probably even harder for me. I feel like 5-foot-6 or 7 is the breaking point for people who are designing clothes. When I was in high school that’s when I first started finding clothes in thrift stores. I was definitely shopping at Salvation Army but there was a point in time where there was kind of a ‘derelict’ idea about fashion and just wearing whatever looked goofy. ‘Look at this crazy hat I found at the thrift store’ as opposed to as opposed to it being an attractive thing [laughs].

But once I started to think ‘what’s going to fit well for a certain occasion?’ or whatever I started to realize I was in a very in-between sort of size. And I think it’s gotten worse since I got out of high school. Maybe in the past 10, 15 years.

Do you think it’s that your standards are getting higher or do you think there are less options for you now?

I think it’s less options. Because the division between what younger and older people are wearing [has increased]. For awhile I’d go to the Salvation Army and I’d buy Boy’s pants because that would be what fit. Levi’s used to make pants that were called ‘Student Fit’ [laughs] and I don’t think they have any such thing anymore. There wasn’t as much distinction between, say, a Boy’s pair of pants and a Men’s as far as the cut goes. They were definitely the same kind of pants. Whereas now if you go to the Boy’s section of a major box store or dept. store, it’s a very different style. They’re not really interchangeable anymore.

What do you have the hardest time finding?

Pants. I’m about a 27/28-inch waist so I can’t fit into the smallest Men’s pants. My experience has been – especially with jeans because that’s pretty much what I wear – is that once they start getting down to those lower sizes, they don’t really proportionally tailor the pants to a smaller size. So instead of bringing everything about the size down proportionally, they’ll just cut the pant leg shorter [laughs]. So you get these huge pockets and these big, wide legs on these pants that will maybe fit your waist and maybe fit the length of your legs. And I think that Levi’s is one of the worst offenders with this. I like their jeans. But they just don’t really fit me anymore.

Pants or dress slacks, I can bring them in to get hemmed. But denim jeans are kind of a different thing. People just aren’t used to tailoring those kinds of things.

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Here’s a handful of little bits and bobs that I’ve been bookmarking over the last month. None of them can really be spun into a full post, so I thought I’d itemize them here for your reading pleasure:

John McCain (5-foot-7) appears to be taking Alan Au’s sartorial advice. [HuffPo]

A bunch of ShSh readers are psyched that Brit High Street clothier Topshop is opening in NYC. Unfortunately, it’s been delayed. They did manage to launch the online shop for US customers, though. [Shophound]

Not sure how short the hem is on these, but Andy Tarradath swears by Urban Outfitter’s $14 Bull Dog fitted tees. [The Moment]

Plaid jackets are back. And Urban Outfitters has one that looks pretty short (“26 inches from shoulder to hem”). [See Jack Shop]

Critical Shopper checks out the Thom Browne store in Tribeca and find a cardigan that “seemed two sizes too small, and the cuffs landed on my forearms.” Bad for Mike Albo; good for us. [NY Times]

And don’t forget to check out my Flickr set of Macy’s photos if you haven’t already. [Short Shrifted]

Here’s Part 2 of my Q&A with Steve Cardino, the 5′6″ Men’s Fashion Director at Macy’s. Recently, Steve took me on a tour through the Men’s Department at their flagship store in Herald Square. Below, Steve discusses sizing trends, specific brands that work for short guys, short celebs, and shopping in the Boys Dept.

SHORT SHRIFTED: There are so many Extra Large specialty stores for men, and there are so many petite departments for women. Do you think Macy’s itself — or stores in general — will ever have a smaller men’s section?

STEVE CARDINO: It’s a good question. I think most stores would feel that they speak to the customer to some degree with Slim Fit, Shorts, and European brands. It would be interesting to see. What I find kind of curious is the stores where we sell a disproportionate amount of small sizes are also the stores where we tend to sell most of the better European brands. So I have just decided that men who are shorter have better taste [laughs].

You’re sort of forced into it in a way.

You’re absolutely right. That’s a very good point: You don’t have an option in some cases to do it if you want something that hangs on you like it hangs on the showroom model.

Are there any shorter men – in Hollywood, pop culture, politics – that you see as style icons?

I never realize with some of the celebrities, how small they are. Like I didn’t know Tom Cruise is like 5’8”. I had no idea. Johnny Depp. Even Ryan Seacrest, he’s a small guy as well. And god bless Ryan Seacrest. There he was every Tuesday night on TV in a skinny tie and a new slim-fit suit. It was absolutely terrific.

I think a lot of these people are very small and we don’t realize it. And they certainly look great. But again, it’s what we’ve been talking about: the nuances in the tailoring. And how it’s put together. They’re wearing clothes that fit. And granted, in a lot of cases they’re wearing very expensive clothes. But I think in a lot of cases it’s still possible to put some of the looks together.

Fashion exists at every level of the market. It really gives everybody the opportunity [to look good] at every price point. And let’s face it, what people do today is mix and match. That Gautier jacket that I bought at the Barneys warehouse sale? I wore it over a T-shirt and I wanted a black fringe scarf. I went to H&M and spent $7. It was for one night; it was fine! [laughs]

Although my blog is generally more focused on shorter and slimmer, do you have any advice for the shorter, heavier gentleman?

Unfortunately, I think that customer needs to focus on an American cut as opposed to European cut. And as a result of that their alteration issues may be even a little more profound. Because at least some of the slimmer companies that are doing a more tailored product have shortened up the sizes a little bit. Whereas the American is a little more “classic.” And I think there you might have the tailoring. But you need to just factor that into the cost of whatever you’re buying, and just know that that’s what it’s going to be. Like sometimes I look at something that I find on sale – 25% off. But I know it’s going to be 25% to tailor it. So you try to balance it out and think about it.

And also if you’re larger you would want larger lapels…

Right. Also, flat-front pants seems to work well on a shorter, slimmer guy. Whereas if you’re heavier, you want the fullness of pleats.

I know I probably shouldn’t do this but for some reason I equate short to thin, but short men may be heavier. Knowing where you fit in here [gestures to torso] is a good thing. You can understand the brands that work for you… There are certain brands that I can go to that I know all the time I’m going to pretty much be OK.

And those brands are?

Hugo Boss Red Label is a bit slimmer all over by and large. The proportions are just a lot cleaner. Our own Alfani Red. Theory. INC. Will I have a problem in sleeve length? Yeah, but I have that everywhere. But I know it’ll work through [the torso]. I stay away from Ralph Lauren because it’s more of an American fit, it’s a boxier cut. But I should point this out even though I’m sure some of your readers know: Ralph Lauren polos come in different fits. A lot of guys don’t realize that, and they end up buying what they think is the only thing available.

What other trends work well with a short build?

The cardigan is a very important silhouette for the fall season. I think it’s a terrific silhouette. I buy as many as I can get because I hate wearing jackets at work. They’re so easy, you just throw it on in the morning, it’s so terrific. I tend to stay away from pattern and go to solids or go to something classic with a piping. The nice thing, too, about a cardigan is I can wear this out on the weekend, too, over a T-shirt and with denim. Or under a jacket which was a big runway direction.

So what brands do you like for cardigans?

The same brands that I mentioned before. Hugo Boss, Theory, INC. But then I also tend to watch — and customers need to pay attention to — those brands that do modern or slim fit. French Connection is a great brand because they tend to be a little slimmer. Basically any of the brands that are modeling themselves on European houses tend to be a little slimmer and a little smaller.

Here’s Iceberg. It’s a brand out of Italy. You can see how clearly they speak to Slim Fit. It’s not an inexpensive sort of a shirt. We’re working on a new line out of Amsterdam that we’re going to be carrying in the spring called Cold Method where I was looking at the sizing and usually model sizes are a Medium, and I was like give me that, I want to try that on. And it barely fit me. It was too small. So we’re sizing up two sizes.

I’ve only been in Men’s for five years now. I cannot tell you the amount of companies now that are not only doing Extra Larges but XXLs and XXXLs. As a whole the population’s getting bigger. So it becomes a challenge. And what I always tell the planners is: Whenever I go to a clearance rack I don’t see any Smalls. I never see any Smalls.

I was going to bring that up. On sale racks, there’s always 5 billion XLs, a lot of Larges, a few Mediums, and only one or two Smalls or Extra Smalls. Clearly they’re selling! And it’s like: If you’re comfortable having this many XLs on the leftover rack, why can’t you up the production of the Smalls just a little bit?

I think it’s an education process. I try and champion it here. With our planners I say, especially with the true fashion brands, you’ve got to [include smaller sizes].

Now the unfortunate thing is, to my knowledge, nobody makes a casual dress shirt that comes in lengths. We’ve all had that issue where you go to tuck something into your pants and you’re dealing with fabric down to here. So again, it’s just a matter of finding those brands that work for you.

I guess there are probably some guys where a 14½ neck is too big. Then I think you honestly [need to consider the Boys Department]. Up until about eight years ago I used to go to the Boys Dept. I used to buy Boys sizes like 18s to 20s.

So, for guys checking out the Boys Dept., are you aware of any brands right now that seem age-appropriate for adults?

One of the things that’s happened in the Boys industry is that so many of the brands that have been Mens and Young Mens have moved into Boys. If you go up to the kids floor, you’re going to see Polo, Tommy, Calvin, Guess – you’re going to see all the same brands. There are very few brands that are just children’s brands, unless it’s more of an infant thing (Osh Kosh, etc.).

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As Men’s Fashion Director at Macy’s, Steve Cardino charts the course each season for men’s clothing in all of the chain’s 800 U.S. retail stores. Although Cardino looms large in the fashion world, he also happens to stand 5-foot-6: “properly proportioned” as he calls it. As such, he’s uniquely qualified to offer us some great advice.

Recently, Steve took me on a tour through the Men’s Department at the Macy’s flagship store in Herald Square. We talked about problems men under 5′8″ face shopping for clothes, current trends that favor us, the importance of alterations, specific brands that work for short guys, shopping in the Boys Dept., and more. (Thanks to the many Short Shrifted readers who wrote in with questions for Steve)

You can see all the photos on Flickr.

SHORT SHRIFTED: Hi Steve. So what’s going on with clothing options for short guys these days?

STEVE CARDINO: I think the challenge that all of us face – and when I say all of us I mean guys that are not really tall — is that there’s been such a move in the apparel industry toward standardization. It’s simply easier from a SKU maintenance point of view. Like right now all of the neckwear we carry on our floor is 57 inches in length. Now, it’s a standard sort of a size. The neckwear buyer tells me a few years ago it was actually 59 so it has gotten a little shorter, but it’s not like most of the neckwear companies you see here are making special sizes. We do carry special sizes in the dress shirt component, which really translates into sleeve length (that’s really important). But I’m always amazed at the number of men that don’t realize that dress shirts come in [different] sleeve lengths.

What’s interesting to me is that it seems like everyone has their shirts too big, their sleeves too long. I’m not even talking about just short guys. And the big trend now is the shirt-sleeve roll.

And I think they only do that to compensate. There’s that, and then there’s always that guy in the dress shirt that’s got three yards of fabric back here because he doesn’t realize that you can buy a modern, trim-fit dress shirt. But I think in general, most guys, whether short or tall, don’t buy clothes that are size appropriate. It makes it harder for people that are our size. And I think you almost have to accept the fact that some degree of tailoring has to be factored into your thought when you purchase. I mean, I have yet to buy a suit – whether it was $500 or $1200 – that I didn’t have to spend $100 on having tailored.

I guess for people our size, it’s not possible to live an entirely off-the-rack lifestyle. But if you’re a guy that’s on a budget, what do you invest in off-the-rack and what do you get tailored?

I personally believe that there are certain things in life that are crazy to spend a lot of money on. One of them is luggage. Why would you ever spend a lot of money on luggage and give it to the airline? The second thing is men’s dress shirts – if you’re like me and you send them out. Because invariably after two times out they come back and the buttons have cracked…

That just happened to me actually.

So for me, I try to spend what I consider a moderate amount of money knowing that they have a very short shelf life. But in terms of where I spend is on professional [items], for work. To your earlier point: on a casual shirt, you can roll the cuff up. On a sweater you can cuff that, too. Most pants you have to have tailored in length anyway, I mean most guys have to have pants tailored. Tie? Depending. Sometimes you can spend $100 on a tie but you can buy a $30 tie that looks just as good.

A few years ago when I started trying to dress a little bit better, I bought a few expensive ties from Barneys and different places. They were fine, but they were usually too long. So either you have to have them tailored or they end up hanging in my closet.

Or you have to stuff the fabric in your pants. Yep, I’ve done that.

What I’ve found is eBay. I just go and get these vintage ties. They always say the length and the width. And a lot of them are much shorter.

But your question earlier about where to spend the money was really a good one. Because it can’t be everywhere. Definitely the suit. To spend any amount of money on a suit, especially if you’re going to spend a decent amount on it (say $500-$700), and not have it tailored? You’re not spending your money smartly.

So when you buy a suit and you know you’re going to have to do some alterations on it, what are you looking for in terms of fit kind of off the rack and what can you work with?

Well, most suits come in Short, Regular and Long. If I buy a Short, I’m usually OK with the length. I seem to have short arms, so I usually always have to have the sleeve length taken up. So what I’m always watching is: Where is the button placement on that sleeve? Is the tailor going to have enough to work with? Or if you’re really spending more you get working buttonholes. And also the fit through [the chest]. Usually the shoulders fit OK. And a man can usually judge that. But most men don’t realize a suit should sort of skim the body. You don’t want it to hug, but it shouldn’t hang like a box. You should have some shape once you’re in a suit. So a suit is something I would definitely always spend money on. A sport jacket, too. Every few years I seem to spend an absurd amount of money on a navy blue blazer. But you get a great navy blue blazer and you look phenomenal.

So invest in a few key pieces that fit great (or are perfectly tailored)?

Yes. On my first trip to Europe, I commented to someone in our Italian office on how incredible Italian men dressed. And the woman in our office over there said, ‘That’s because Italian men would rather have two phenomenal sweaters than 10 so-so sweaters.’ And it’s that mentality: You want a few pieces that are special.

You’ve talked in an article I read about this trend, you called it ‘the rock-star trend’ – Band of Outsiders, Thom Browne, all that stuff [that fits short, slim men so well]. Do you see that continuing for a while?

I definitely do. In fact, I’m working on Macy’s Fall ’09, I’m calling it Here Comes the Son, and it’s still that rock-star vibe. The influences are the vest, the velvet jacket, that short-waisted leather jacket (that same high waist that we saw downstairs, only in leather), the three-piece suit over a patterned shirt. But it’s a three-piece suit worn as sportswear as opposed to being worn as tailored clothing, so it’s an entirely different vibe. But the accessories really make the difference. So the jacket lapels are getting narrower, the ties are getting narrower, the collars are narrower.

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